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Naunet
Naunet
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Naunet

Re: Guess Pandaren are just a fad?

Postby Naunet » August 18th, 2014, 2:43 pm

Nolan wrote:No other MMO out there has done a universe that is as rich in lore as WoW is, to my knowledge, and pulled it off. TESO is a mechanical mess full of retcons and contradicting lore, SWTOR is just garbage now with so much wasted potential, and EQN+L are promising despite being built by SOE. And one can't forget all the B2P and F2P alternatives out there. I'm not a fan of Final Fantasy so I can't speak for FFXIV:ARR players, but even that MMO seems pretty stagnant. (I personally can't get over all the asian influences choking the badassery out of everything. Femboys... ugh)

Mechanically, the only MMO out there that I found to be truly enjoyable was Wildstar during the time I played it in Beta. It felt familiar like WoW yet built on the success of the old buttons with the action combat of Guild Wars 2. I'm not saying though that I wouldn't want more than 6-10 buttons, but it's better than GW2 as a whole.


I wouldn't say WoW has the richest lore. It's certainly been around for a while, but it's got its fair share of holes and handwaves and retcons.

I think Kiraleen's right in that LotRO probably has hands-down the "richest" lore of all MMOs, but I don't think it's really fair to consider that. It kind of cheats, what with being tied to one of the most insanely in-depth world building authors of all time. xD

I enjoy Rift's lore quite a bit, to be honest. It has both high fantasy aspects combined with some subtle science fiction that pulls it in just the right ways. Trion really needs to hire better class story writers though, because the stories that came out attached to the new souls relatively recently were just horrid. With those exceptions, though, I really love the whole multiverse thing and the planes and the creepy factor of resurrecting people with other people's souls and... it's just quite fun.

FFXIV has really solid base lore, but its story is horrendous. Which is funny, because SE is supposed to be known for good story-telling, but in my time playing ARR, I can quite honestly say I have never experienced a more trite, boring, and at times downright nonsensical main storyline. Not to mention the infuriating "Meet me at the Waking Sands!" over and over and over and over and over and over and over and... WE HAVE LINKPEARLS FOR A REASON AUGH. /explode

I'm glad you mentioned WildStar, because I am seriously loving the ever-living shit out of that MMO right now. Its story hits all the right notes of science-fantasy, sci-fi western, crazy cartoon, and super serious. It's goofy and over the top while also being at times extremely disturbing. And the lore surrounding Nexus - not to mention the potential lore for the rest of the galaxy - is just delicious. It's such a new game that we're still discovering and learning, but I think it has some really fantastic potential in terms of story. (And you didn't hear it from me, but a lot of people's money is on Nexus being one giant computer program... the meta-ness is strong in that one. XD)
"Song dogs barking at the break of dawn, lightning pushes the edges of a thunder storm. And these streets, quiet as a sleeping army, send their battered dreams to heaven."

Sergeant Stonzgrinda
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Re: Guess Pandaren are just a fad?

Postby Sergeant Stonzgrinda » August 18th, 2014, 3:06 pm

Nolan wrote:... I can tell that I'm one of the few here who care about the Pandaren and the actual lore that has lead up through Cataclysm, Mists of Pandaria, and into Warlords of Draenor. ...


I think you need to work on nuance perception a little bit, podnuh. We care about lore, many of us just think the recent and present iterations are shit. We're older here for the most part, and well read in fantasy and scifi and mythological genres generally. Many of us have read the Eddas, the Niebelungenlied, the Ramakien, Beowulf, Le Morte d'Arthur, The Lay of Igor, Egil's Saga, The Mabinogion, The Illiad, The Odyssey, The Aeneid, the Kalevalad and the Sha-Nemeh. When we hear 'Homer', our first thought is a blind Greek, not Marge's husband, although we do know both. Our shelves have authors like Howard, Tolkien, Wells, Stoker, Burroughs, Lovecraft and C.S. Lewis, as well as Golden. Guess what? 'War Crimes' is weighed in the balances and found wanting. We are pretty stubborn here. We color outside the lines. We know what we like, and are going to maintain it until the lights flicker out on this declining franchise, at which point we'll move on to something else in our traveling feast.

You made a wrong turn somewhere. Ravenholdt is sort of the demi monde, beatnik, subversive and heretical ghetto of WoW RP. For the Blizzard purist, this is a wretched hive of scum and villainy. We like it that way. It is unique and refreshing. This is our home, whereas you don't even have a game subscription.

In looking for a roleplay intellectual strip mall, you have stumbled into a place like the Ismailovo market, or the Samarkand bazaar. You are not in Kansas anymore.

Perhaps you should consider Wyrmrest Accord. There you will find a plethora of roleplayers who strictly adhere to whatever Blizzard tells them to, however self contradicting, perverse, insipid, derivative or inane. Lore is recited on the virtual street corners, and there are mullahs and inquisitors to enforce orthodoxy and publicly criticize lore heresies. There are lore commissars there who will grab you by the lapels with rules, restrictions and templates for your RP. It is a seminary for orthodox lore evangelicals.

I think you will be happier there, in all honesty.

Naunet
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Re: Guess Pandaren are just a fad?

Postby Naunet » August 18th, 2014, 3:10 pm

Come now, let's not go telling people to get off the server just for wanting to talk about and enjoy lore. That's not necessary and certainly isn't conducive to a positive community.
"Song dogs barking at the break of dawn, lightning pushes the edges of a thunder storm. And these streets, quiet as a sleeping army, send their battered dreams to heaven."

darethy
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Re: Guess Pandaren are just a fad?

Postby darethy » August 18th, 2014, 3:20 pm

I pretty much agree with what Stonz said, and i'v studied the lore more throughly then most people here...just to throw it out. WoD broke my spirit, and even though I know Twinflames assertions that alternate realities aren't part of WoW are false, because very early on it was shown that AU's had always been a part of how WoW functions, I can still point to a dozen other things that are terrible.

MoP was merely the precursor to being fed up with the story honestly, i'v read every scrap of lore on Pandarian...some things like the Truthseekers I find interesting, but it cannot blunt the fact that..because in part of my own Asian heritage...I found the Pandarian painfully inane. For a time I thought perhaps their ideology was a swerve reflecting the fall of many of the more stagnant and naive ideologies in my culture, that by the end of the expansion the Pandarian would realize that sometimes you need brutality, impulsiveness, and a fiery spirit to win the day.

No, not really.

In the end, despite what The Fixer says about Wrathion, Shaohao and the Celestials reaffirm their beliefs. The Huojin remain outliers to a large Tushui mainland population who are now likely stronger then ever. The Pandarian have learned nothing, the vale will heal itself and they will once again rely on Titan magic to feed and supply their people. In all likelihood they will isolate themselves again, and become just as stereotypical and peace lovingly stagnant as they had been at the start.

We leave Pandaria having learned nothing but psudo-Asian wisdom, and that makes me sad.

Sergeant Stonzgrinda
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Re: Guess Pandaren are just a fad?

Postby Sergeant Stonzgrinda » August 18th, 2014, 3:48 pm

Naunet wrote:Come now, let's not go telling people to get off the server just for wanting to talk about and enjoy lore. That's not necessary and certainly isn't conducive to a positive community.



A) He is not in the game, much less any server.

B) I suggested he expand his queries to a more 'lore compliant' body of people for his theoretical questions.

And, (C), speaking of lore ------


HOW 'BOUT DEM ORCS IN WARLORDS?! WHAT DA LOK'TAR'S COOKIN'! :mrgreen:

Resileaf
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Re: Guess Pandaren are just a fad?

Postby Resileaf » August 18th, 2014, 4:07 pm

We leave Pandaria having learned nothing but psudo-Asian wisdom, and that makes me sad.


Well, we know that the Celestials are f***ing idiots.

So that's something.

If I may mention something about the lore, its that when WoW came out, it came from one of Blizz's best games, Warcraft 3, and it showed a world completely unlike most fantasy settings.
Actual good orcs who seek redemption for their actions.
Amazon-like nocturnal elves who adere to the Jim West school of thought of 'shoot first, shoot later, shoot some more and maybe when everyone is dead, think about asking questions'.
An entire race of sentient undead seeking revenge not against the living, but against those who made them what they were.
That's what WoW had to build on. But then, PvP happened. To make conflict possible, Blizzard made the Orcs return to their stupid roots and invade Ashenvale for lumber instead of having friendly trading relations with the Night elves.
Warcraft lost most of its lore possibilities when the decision to make WoW PvP-oriented was made.
Last edited by Resileaf on August 18th, 2014, 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

darethy
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Re: Guess Pandaren are just a fad?

Postby darethy » August 18th, 2014, 4:07 pm

Since I brought Warhammer into this thread briefly, I think they would make a good parallel. When it comes to Geedubs my complaints lie completely with their business practices. Their fluff? their fluff is awesome, even some of Matt Wards stuff is awesome, Ward is a thousand times better on a bad day then Knaak is on a good. Do you know why their fluff is so good?

It's because GeeDubs realizes Warhammer is about your dudes.

Chaos, Imperium, Eldar, whatever. The story, narrative wise, never progresses past the 41st millennium. Now this may sound bad, but it's actually excellent...they have tried moving the story ahead before, it turns out VERY poorly because everyone wants the best for their faction. The Imperium will have one of two things happen to it in the 42nd millenia: The Emperor is resurrected, or he dies and the Imperium dies with it, either way some factions will die even if the Imperium doesn't. There was a MASSIVE outcry for a small faction like the squats going extinct, and wiping out half the playerbases armies would be unimaginably bad. So doesn't this stagnate the universe? Not at all, they advance in increments, small scale, or even just between worlds and characters.

Blizzards problem is they don't respect your dudes.

When they advance the story, they do it in large increments. The current Horde and Alliance war has progressed to the point where one side has lost, when you do this, you alienate everyone on that side. Blizzard thinks the story isn't about the PC, it's about Thrall, it's about Varian, it's about Vol'jin...but no, no it's not, that's not who we play and who we bond with. Fulgrim, Horus, The Emperor, Vulkan, in 40k these are pretty cool guys...but they are background characters, they are supplements to yours and provide a skeleton. These people are NOT the focus, the focus is on your guys, your faction, your warband, and what they represent.

This is the major problem with Blizzard ever since the Horde and Alliance broke out of the cold war, the only way for the story to progress is for either A. One faction has to suffer. or B. A guy who is not our character has to take control of the situation. I.E Tiron being the one to beat Arthas, not us.

Nolan
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Re: Guess Pandaren are just a fad?

Postby Nolan » August 18th, 2014, 4:32 pm

I suppose that came out wrong Stonzgrinda, what I meant was Pandaren in particular and how the cataclysm lead up to their reveal. I do regret making this thread now since it seems I've just caused a lot of aggression to bubble up. I didn't intend on inflaming any conflicts, I was just incensed by the trailer release and the information put forward leading up to the live show via MMO-Champion these past few weeks. I only mean to stir discussion from the perspective of the established lore and what you guys of the Sanctum think about it.

So apologies about that, as well as coming off as hostile towards you good folks. I didn't intend on sounding hostile towards anyone. I also don't intend on changing my mind about moving to this server though, I've come to enjoy the folks here and I can't wait to get employed, a new computer, install the game and get back into the swing of things. In the end, it's just a game and for all the flaws we like to poke at, it's just for fun. :)

Also, that is a great perspective on Blizzard and WoW, Darethy! I would never have made the connection between WH40K and Warcraft if you didn't show it. :) I suppose in the end, the Horde does have a more vocal and passionate following so I guess it makes sense for the Alliance to suffer from a business perspective, as much as the Alliance players may disagree with it. Good catch Darethy!
Noldain: Human Death Knight
Baltus Ravenholm: Worgen Priest
Nylaenan Oakwhisper: Night Elf Druid
Nipwick Mechaneedle: Gnome Rogue
Njolin Stonefeather: Dwarf Shaman

darethy
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darethy

Re: Guess Pandaren are just a fad?

Postby darethy » August 18th, 2014, 5:12 pm

I think the Hordes suffered at least as bad due to Blizzards attention, if MoP was any indication.

Draxonicar
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Re: Guess Pandaren are just a fad?

Postby Draxonicar » August 22nd, 2014, 6:08 pm

speaking of bears here's a koala being revived with CPR after it got hit by a car

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnt7u532xTQ&list

adorable

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