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Verin
Verin
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Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Verin » November 24th, 2014, 7:09 pm

Thomas Jarington wrote:In regards to that, I only sent one tiger into the orphanage, and parked a wagon load outside. Verin's post had them explode, as well as killing guards and such. I won't speak for him in that regard.


Quilty as charged for that. The subject matter really got under my skin (which, holy cow, that is a hard thing to accomplish) and was the main reason I put my 'toons in there. I had characters to stop/mitigate what was likely going to happen based on how I saw the other tigers act, so I did (albeit last minute due to time constraints). I'm not sure if I want to consider the fall-out as IC for Verin or not, as it puts him in a spotlight which I'm not sure how to handle. Anyway, that's all personal stuff on my end and doesn't really add to this discussion! Go back to looking at something else *flails at the spotlight to get it away from him*.
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Naunet
Naunet
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Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Naunet » November 24th, 2014, 8:40 pm

/modhat on

Let's keep it chill in here and take a step back from personal call-outs, people.

The question of how to handle collaborative story-telling in a seemingly static world and with a variety of different groups of people teetering and veering off into a thousand different dimensions is certainly a good one to ponder on a public forum. Dirty laundry airing, however, is not. If that's your desire, please take it to PMs.
"Song dogs barking at the break of dawn, lightning pushes the edges of a thunder storm. And these streets, quiet as a sleeping army, send their battered dreams to heaven."

Twinflame
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Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Twinflame » November 24th, 2014, 8:44 pm

Sounds like a whole buncha folk who, instead of talking out issues, would rather pretend that one party has done something objectively wrong and write them off. But they haven't. Nobody needs anyone else's permission to RP what they want to RP, unless they want to include you, at which point they're tacitly requesting your permission and you can refuse (or, if you're mature and want to be inclusive, you can talk about the conflict and attempt to come to a compromise). Nobody, from the slayer of orphans to the pumpkinator, can offend you just by attempting to include you in their rp. If they do, then you're the one with the problem, not them.

It's okay to let someone else have a different RP canon than you do. And, by the by, Froszil was the friggin prince of including everyone. Don't think just because he's not here anymore it's safe to paint him as a bad guy. He didn't want it to be all about him; he was just nice as hell and included as many people as possible, working his butt off to make it all work. Even that one time people were throwing bombs in Orgrimmar, Froszil did his best to work with that (even if it was somewhat unwise, but it's better to err on the side of kindness). He wanted to include people and people wanted to be included. People had fun.

*goes back to his RP and launches an attack on Stormwind Keep, expecting no one else to acknowledge it except those directly involved in the plot*

Naunet
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Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Naunet » November 24th, 2014, 8:46 pm

Twinflame wrote:*goes back to his RP and launches an attack on Stormwind Keep, expecting no one else to acknowledge it except those directly involved in the plot*


*evil giggle*
"Song dogs barking at the break of dawn, lightning pushes the edges of a thunder storm. And these streets, quiet as a sleeping army, send their battered dreams to heaven."

LEGION
LEGION
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Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby LEGION » November 24th, 2014, 10:05 pm

Thomas Jarington wrote:So, going back to my big, bold print of a solution: "What happens in the Forum STAYS in the forum and does not effect anyone RP'ing in the world unless a player wants it to effect their character."


Well, perhaps you should make that statement at the beginning of all your stories (or at least the ones in which you have no intention of limiting yourself), so that nobody takes them to be anything more than "Jarrington's Bizarro WoW". I'd be totally cool with you being off in your own little world where anything you want to happen, happens however you want it to. Heck, I may even participate, given the opportunity. (Probably with Varian/Garrosh action)

However, I do try pretty hard to make sure that when I diverge greatly from the backdrop of the WoW universe we're given -- which I have done and will continue to do -- that I also leave room for disbelief. The action may be very intense, but its scope is also very narrow, so people can pick and choose more readily if they want to become involved, and how. I don't WANT my stories to be considered my own little Bizarro WoW. (Well, with the exception of the Fagerboozle stories, because he's Bizarro Dorf, and if anyone takes THOSE seriously... well. Some medication might be in order.) I like very much for my work to be able to dovetail easily into the rather expansive universe we've been given to play in, and be something that can be widely accepted as having happened, or at least have enough plausibility as to be possible. Hence my nervousness when going out on RP limbs, knowing that I'm on a line where someone can say "that's bullshit." At that point, I either have to agree to disagree, or change my story to bring it in line with the known world.

The more successful stories tend to be ones in which a reader (or viewer if we're talking a visual format) can either COMPLETELY suspend disbelief because it is clear the story is not intended in any way to mimic real life, or they are as close to being 'accurate' with just tiny differences that allow for the events in the story, without contradicting the world that the reader is familiar with.

Thomas Jarington wrote:Anyway, I doubt anyone will follow that, instead, insist that I am god-moder and constantly coerce others to play.


Well, I'd like to point out that many god-moders don't have a clue that they are engaging in god-mode. A good litmus test for yourself would be "How many people does my action affect?" Is it a few individuals? Is it a town? An entire race? Every step you take in that regard, puts you more and more in control of the action and the 'world'. In essence, the bigger it gets, the closer to God you become. Because at every increment, you start taking AWAY options from more and more people, and are more and more likely to hit a situation where someone notices and CARES.

If ultimately, your choice is "No one, because none of it should be considered 'real'", then have at it! Go friggen bugnuts!

Thomas Jarington wrote:I actually thought people were having fun with the Funk story, which was the reason I posted the Clockwork Tiger as open. Silly me for thinking otherwise.


The Funk story WAS fun until it started getting out of hand and it became clear that your belief in "anything goes for a good story!" was clashing with some of the more conservative sentiments of some of the other collaborators. That, and you made it pretty plain that you didn't enjoy being towed back into Non-Jarrington WoWspace. So, it wasn't fun for you anymore, and it wasn't fun for us.

As for the Tiger story, I haven't read a word of it. Sorry. A) The Moriarty character doesn't appeal to me, and more importantly B) I didn't have time to spend reading stuff I probably wasn't going to enjoy. What DID irk me about it was when I was asked "What will SCG's official response going to be?" My immediate thought was (and I think I actually SAID it too) "There needed to be an official response!?" Well, apparently YEAH, there was a clear expectation because the story fell right in the MIDDLE of what SCG would normally handle. I hadn't been approached beforehand to see if I or any of my officers were interested in participating, so by the time I found out that there was anything I was 'supposed to have' responded to, the story was well under way, I still had no time for it and even LESS interest for it under the circumstances. I warned Verin that he could get involved if he just wanted to romp, but that it couldn't rationally happen without its being made official, and at that stage I wasn't about to try to scramble to make it work. So it was going to be relegated to "It never happened." Which, I really dislike having to do, given my desire to see things come together well.

Now, before you think you're being singled out for being naughty, let me say that there have been a thread or two in recent memory that I felt I HAD to read to understand what was going on in the world, but really didn't enjoy. People can confirm that I was repeatedly begging for summaries, because I just couldn't slog through another installment. (and before you say "Oh well, you don't HAVE to read stuff!" I beg to differ: I can count multiple times when people in-game would tell me 'Oh, this and that thing happened over at the Sanctum!' which placed me in the awkward position of having to tell someone that I wasn't reeeeaaaallly reading their stuff, and would they please just TELL me what my character would know about the situation?)

Anyway. You're not the only one. But you, and everyone else, CAN try to avoid it going forward. Or just have a BizarroDisclaimer. Whatever. ;)

Thomas Jarington
Thomas Jarington
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Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Thomas Jarington » November 25th, 2014, 12:16 am

I prefer the bizarro disclaimer idea, myself. ;) I actually like that, it made me giggle.

Now, moving forward, I do have a serious question, as well as how it stacks up in the 'god mode' realm. And it has to do with the SGC. Disclaimer: I LOVE what the guild offers to the RP community!

The RP Guild named "Stormwind City Guard" is the exact same title as all of the blue-armoured NPC's that wander around guarding Stormwind, Elwynn Forest and Redridge. You guys even wear the same uniform.

Now, this is an assumption on my part, and please correct me if I am wrong: this guild RP's "As If" they are the same force. correct? I mean, Spero certainly did, and even patrolled Stormwind on a regular basis - walking the canal beat. Then, he became it's Captain and, when he died, Landreth was promoted to that leadership position.

Okay, based off of my assumptions, I have a question (this is not a flame, it is legit in helping me understand something):

How can RP'ing as the Police Captain and law enforcement of an entire city, as well as two districts (Elwynn and Redridge) NOT be a God-Mode type of position?

Doesn't that run counter to the litmus test of how many people does my action effect? The effect being control of law enforcement (and anything breaking said law) over a city and two districts.

This is a serious question and I am genuinely interested in the distinction. :)
Thomas Jarington & Co.

Astraea Sammuels
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Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Astraea Sammuels » November 25th, 2014, 12:46 am

Thomas Jarington wrote:How can RP'ing as the Police Captain and law enforcement of an entire city, as well as two districts (Elwynn and Redridge) NOT be a God-Mode type of position?


You're absolutely right. Long ago, Dash addressed this directly by creating the "Opt Out" list. It was exactly how it sounds. If anyone didn't want their characters to exist in a world where we Guards were more than NPCs, they could let us know, we would add them to the list and we would simply not exist to one another IC'ly. It was only in extreme cases of repeat god-mode offences that we had made every effort to address OOCly that someone would be added to that list by us without their consent.

Over time, the actual digital list was lost. I suppose this is because as the RPing base became more experienced, they adopted this line of thought individually and exercised it at will. (ex: Cerethier opting out of Clockwork Tiger story line)

As we've gotten some new members, maybe it would be prudent to re-establish this idea for them with a disclaimer - both from organizations or individuals that may have a potentially wide-reaching affect on server RP.

LEGION
LEGION
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Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby LEGION » November 25th, 2014, 1:10 am

Astraea Sammuels wrote:
Thomas Jarington wrote:How can RP'ing as the Police Captain and law enforcement of an entire city, as well as two districts (Elwynn and Redridge) NOT be a God-Mode type of position?


You're absolutely right. Long ago, Dash addressed this directly by creating the "Opt Out" list. It was exactly how it sounds. If anyone didn't want their characters to exist in a world where we Guards were more than NPCs, they could let us know, we would add them to the list and we would simply not exist to one another IC'ly. It was only in extreme cases of repeat god-mode offences that we had made every effort to address OOCly that someone would be added to that list by us without their consent.

Over time, the actual digital list was lost. I suppose this is because as the RPing base became more experienced, they adopted this line of thought individually and exercised it at will. (ex: Cerethier opting out of Clockwork Tiger story line)

As we've gotten some new members, maybe it would be prudent to re-establish this idea for them with a disclaimer - both from organizations or individuals that may have a potentially wide-reaching affect on server RP.


^^ Totally this. The list actually DOES still exist, but by now it's so far out of date as to be useless. After a while, the existence of the SCG became part of the Ravenholdt fabric and very few people felt their noses were getting bumped (or at least didn't complain about it if they were). I'm perfectly happy to resume its use for anyone who doesn't want to be interfered with by the SCG. This is absolutely one of the areas I was referring to as 'dangerous', and one where I would basically have to agree to disagree for the sake of something that has extended and been accepted for far longer than I've been a part of it.

Thomas Jarington
Thomas Jarington
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Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
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Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Thomas Jarington » November 25th, 2014, 2:30 am

Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying. Count me opted IN, as I appreciate what the SCG has to offer to the community. Every villain needs a cop....

No. Every Mastermind Needs a Button that Wrecks Havoc
Thomas Jarington & Co.

Julilee
Julilee
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Julilee

Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Julilee » November 25th, 2014, 11:48 am

Twinflame wrote:Nobody needs anyone else's permission to RP what they want to RP, unless they want to include you, at which point they're tacitly requesting your permission and you can refuse (or, if you're mature and want to be inclusive, you can talk about the conflict and attempt to come to a compromise). ...

It's okay to let someone else have a different RP canon than you do. ...

*goes back to his RP and launches an attack on Stormwind Keep, expecting no one else to acknowledge it except those directly involved in the plot*

This. Either collaborate, or squint and soft-focus. Work it out, or walk around the plot holes. There is no other possible way to deal with a free-form roleplaying community.
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