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Jalsihr
Jalsihr
Posts: 4
Joined: November 7th, 2014, 1:09 pm
Jalsihr

Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Jalsihr » November 24th, 2014, 5:20 pm

"Ben, I've got one word for you, just one: Relativism." - The Graduated

Let me start with a long, boring story:

Once, I was on a train headed to the airport when a guy approached my compartment and asked if he could sit. I said yes, he sat down and we began to talk. He asked where I was from, what I had been doing in the area, etc. Eventually we began discussing religion and he told me a story I had never heard before about how God had split the moon in half as a showcase to the unconverted that His people were speaking the truth. He went on to say that scientists had actually discovered evidence that the moon was at one point split in half in the form of molten fault lines of some kind (at least I think, he was speaking very quickly and my grasp on the language was a bit shaky). I recalled theories that the moon had been formed as the result of a mars-sized object colliding with Earth, and I asked if he was referring to that. He told me no and proceeded with his commentary on the day's religious issues. The question there seems similar to the question here, how do I respond?

1) I'm pretty sure this is untrue so, I challenge him further on it. Neither of us had a magic google-box on us, so looking it up was unlikely. Even if I had looked it up and found nothing, he could claim it was from a more difficult to find source. Ultimately, neither of us can fly to the moon and look for these sealed fissures, so the debate is unlikely to be settled in this manner.

2) I'm pretty sure he believes this is true. I accept that he believes it and go on with the conversation, making a note to check whether this story is a widely shared one among members of his religious community.

Those were the two that occurred to me, I'm sure others could think of other things to do. The point is that people frequently mis-cite historical events and it's often very difficult to prove it has happened. Even if we had looked it up and discovered the moon had been split in half, it wouldn't have settled the question of when it had happened and whether it had been the result of an act of God. In the same manner, it's difficult to prove past RP events have happened the way people claim they have in much the same way it's difficult to prove RL past events have happened in precisely the way some people claim they have.

At least part of the issue here seems to be that no one wants to be on the wrong side: no one wants to be the crazy person claiming aliens really did discover cheez-its before the pilgrims. Consider, instead, that humans (and I can only assume the rest of the Warcraft races) are not perfect recorders of history. This doesn't make them any more wrong than the next person, as that next person is just as flawed a recorder of history.

I have a buddy who used to work as a cop, and one of his least favorite parts of the job was collecting witness statements. This wasn't because people lie (although they do) but because even two honest people can miss details and, in their effort to build a functioning picture of the event, fill those details in with things from their own imagination without realizing what they've done.

I have a clear image in my head of the story I told at the beginning, and I'm guessing that most people who read it created one, too. One could claim that the fact that we can create elaborate pseudo-memories from listening to another's recollection, demonstrates the nearness of imagination and memory.

How does Jal deal with someone claiming they've destroyed a pumpkin patch that he sees still standing there? Unless someone contacts his player beforehand, with disbelief. What about storylines his player finds uninteresting but which call for his attention? He downplays their importance: "Yes, I'm sure it seems very important to them, but really its just a petty _______." If someone continues to insist on shaping the world with their story, in their way, they go from being someone with whom Jal is having a polite disagreement to being a belligerent, misunderstanding what has happened or is happening. If you've never experienced this, go to Thanksgiving this year :P . In a way he's living in an alternate universe, in the same way his player is living in an alternate universe from someone who feels E! is groundbreaking news or that the study of language is unimportant.

Meia
Meia
Posts: 27
Joined: November 21st, 2014, 10:36 pm
Meia

Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Meia » November 24th, 2014, 5:24 pm

Thomas Jarington wrote: "How f'in rude it is to require someone to ask for your permission to play with their own toys.".


Other players are not your toys.

Other characters are not your toys.
Last edited by Meia on November 24th, 2014, 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Cerestal
Cerestal
Posts: 48
Joined: April 4th, 2014, 8:43 am
Cerestal

Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Cerestal » November 24th, 2014, 5:25 pm

Grathier wrote:Dude, you do realise he was being sarcastic right? You can be so bloody dense sometimes...


Grathier, you're the last person who should offer his say on the matter here. I've seen you RP - you're half a godmodder and you know it.

Thomas Jarington
Thomas Jarington
Posts: 210
Joined: April 8th, 2014, 10:55 am
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
Thomas Jarington

Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Thomas Jarington » November 24th, 2014, 5:32 pm

::New RP'r Fidjit walks onto the dock in Lakeshire, where RP'r Lakeshire Larry is fishing - home of the long time RP Bass Club, The Redridge Anglers::

"Hey there, Lakeshire Larry! I got a great idea for a collaborative story involving an addictive drink that makes everyone want to drink more of it. I think Lakeshire would be a terrific place to sell it. Out of the way, remote, so the police won't notice it as quickly. Be lots of fun!"

"NO!" states Lakeshire Larry. "I like mah town quiet, and havin' drunk addicted folks runnin' round would ruin mah RP fishin'. Get lost, Goblin RP'r. This here's mah town!"

"But, Larry! It can get lots of people involved in rp! Or maybe not, but I like RP'ing in Lakeshire."

"NO!" Larry states. "I don't like drinkin' and it don't sound fun ta me. Come back if ya got somethin about fishin'. Until then, get outta my toy box!"

"Okay, Larry. I just thought I'd ask for your permission to RP what I thought would be an interesting story. I guess I won't do it, then."

"Good plan, Goblin RP'r. Go bothah somebody else 'bout it. I got fish ta catch."

=====================

On a more productive note, I will repost AGAIN a possible solution to open, collaborative RP stories, this time written in BOLD BRIGHT LETTERS.

Perhaps my wording was a bit off. So, instead of AS IF, make it a WHAT IF story. A Scenario played out in the forum, and/or in game, that asks a question of, "What if THIS were to happen? What then?" and then it is played out within the story (and in game, if players choose) - and NONE if it is considered canon to any participant's current Role Play, or detrimental to their storylines.
Thomas Jarington & Co.

Thomas Jarington
Thomas Jarington
Posts: 210
Joined: April 8th, 2014, 10:55 am
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
Thomas Jarington

Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Thomas Jarington » November 24th, 2014, 5:36 pm

Fuck that, Cerestal! Grathier's full time, pal. He done burnt mah house down AND stole mah money. I done tried to blowed him up, but he god-dodged it and only got burnt. LOL

Good one, mate. And yes, I DID know you were being sarcastic. As was I. Dealing with Government in RL is bad enough without bringing into fantasy.
Thomas Jarington & Co.

Grathier
Grathier
Posts: 127
Joined: March 28th, 2014, 8:58 am
Grathier

Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Grathier » November 24th, 2014, 5:38 pm

ORLY? *waggles eyebrows at Cerestal* At least I RP with other people. The Twilight Empire must've rubbed off on you a little.

On a related note, coercion is bad. Example is a story about killing orphans less than a month after someone else creates a story about having a half-sister at an orphanage. I'm your perfect example. /pose

Techno-tigers tearing six-year olds throats out didn't mesh well with me, so I wrote it off as non-canon and ignored it. You'll see there's no mention of it in the last Redemption post. Also, the idea that an engine will fail catastrophically without a radio signal made me lol. Machine =/= mechanism.

Nawzkullz
Nawzkullz
Posts: 3
Joined: November 18th, 2014, 11:05 am
Nawzkullz

Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Nawzkullz » November 24th, 2014, 5:42 pm

Thomas Jarington wrote:And by requiring someone to consult you, places you in a position of power over them, Meia. It says your RP is more important than someone elses. If you say no, then they can't rp it. "How f'in rude it is to require someone to ask for your permission to play with their own toys.".


Because no one wants to be someone else's prop.

Vincent Moryarti wrote:... This thread is open to any who feel that the story will effect their characters, or a forum character of their creation. As always, I am open to what comes, though anything that effects MY characters' lives in a detrimental manner (killing, capturing, maiming, etc), as well as using any of my characters in a tale in which I did not write, requires my written authorization via PM. ...


No one.

Cerestal
Cerestal
Posts: 48
Joined: April 4th, 2014, 8:43 am
Cerestal

Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Cerestal » November 24th, 2014, 5:44 pm

Grathier wrote:ORLY? *waggles eyebrows at Cerestal* At least I RP with other people. The Twilight Empire must've rubbed off on you a little.


And how would you know? Has *anyone* here seen the two of us RP together? I read the Funk thread, and you were probably the worst godmod offender there. I'll stick to dealing with sensible folks, thanks.

Meia
Meia
Posts: 27
Joined: November 21st, 2014, 10:36 pm
Meia

Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Meia » November 24th, 2014, 5:47 pm

Nawzkullz wrote:
Thomas Jarington wrote:And by requiring someone to consult you, places you in a position of power over them, Meia. It says your RP is more important than someone elses. If you say no, then they can't rp it. "How f'in rude it is to require someone to ask for your permission to play with their own toys.".


Because no one wants to be someone else's prop.

Vincent Moryarti wrote:... This thread is open to any who feel that the story will effect their characters, or a forum character of their creation. As always, I am open to what comes, though anything that effects MY characters' lives in a detrimental manner (killing, capturing, maiming, etc), as well as using any of my characters in a tale in which I did not write, requires my written authorization via PM. ...


No one.


Excellent catch.

So, it's okay for you to demand permission for use of your characters, but not anyone else.

Gotcha.

Thomas Jarington
Thomas Jarington
Posts: 210
Joined: April 8th, 2014, 10:55 am
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
Thomas Jarington

Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Thomas Jarington » November 24th, 2014, 6:26 pm

Fair enough. If I used anyone's character in a way that was out of alignment with my caveat, then I apologize. I don't recall naming anyone specifically that didn't want to be included. Brewdin and Verin joined, but I don't think I named them.

I did have one of my characters talk to an NPC Stormwind City Guard. So, if that is an issue, I have an even bigger one.

On a related note, coercion is bad. Example is a story about killing orphans less than a month after someone else creates a story about having a half-sister at an orphanage. I'm your perfect example. /pose


In regards to that, I only sent one tiger into the orphanage, and parked a wagon load outside. Verin's post had them explode, as well as killing guards and such. I won't speak for him in that regard.

I created three or four families to show the results of the explosions, none of which would effect any RP'r that I know of, unless, of course, someone claims right of RP to every building inside of Stormwind. Then, perhaps, I was remiss.

Believe me or not, I never intended to have the tiger inside of the orphanage explode, specifically because of Grathier's tale. But I take your point and nod at your /pose. It's timing was suspect, and certainly appears to be coercion.

AND, I do not take issue at all with ignoring what happened in the story. Why would I? I actually appreciate your attitude in this. If you don't believe it possible, don't. The engineering stuff was a bit of silliness with Brewdin, but WoW engineering IS silliness to be honest. Just a bit of fun, really.

So, going back to my big, bold print of a solution: "What happens in the Forum STAYS in the forum and does not effect anyone RP'ing in the world unless a player wants it to effect their character."

I've never stated that my open stories were canon. Why can't they be fantasy and explore possibility instead of being hard-core canon?

Anyway, I doubt anyone will follow that, instead, insist that I am god-moder and constantly coerce others to play. I actually thought people were having fun with the Funk story, which was the reason I posted the Clockwork Tiger as open. Silly me for thinking otherwise.

Cheers.
Thomas Jarington & Co.

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